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Wednesday, January 14, 2009

Iyanifa, an Ode Remo perspective...

Aboru aboye aboshishe,

Clearly one of the "hot" topics in the Ifa community both Traditional Yoruba and Lucumi, is the topic of Iyanifa. Lucumi do not accept this as a legitimate initiation, and in Nigeria, some do not accept it, and some do (though those that do all agree that Iyanifa do not "see" Odu). My Oluwo's wife is an Iyanifa, she doesn't divine, but is very active in Ifa, Ogboni, and ROF. So, in my lineage, we accept the place of an Iyanifa (though again please note, Iyanifa do not see Odu).

In this article, I am not posting my own personal views but felt these series of 10 interviews would be interesting and important to the discussion. Below are some videos on the topic of Iyanifa from Ode Remo, Nigeria, where apparently the initiation of Iyanifa is rejected. Interviews apparently conducted by Russian adherents of different personages in Nigeria including the araba of Ode Remo and others. If nothing else, this reinforces the very clear notion that Ifa and Orisa practice, even in Nigeria, are not as singular as we sometimes want to think in the diaspora. Regional variation in ritual, theology and emphasis occur, and need to be accepted.





















Aboru Aboye Aboshishe,
Marcos Ifalola Sanchez

13 comments:

Iyanifa Telarok said...

In Ode Remo, Women are initiated into Ifa.I was initiated in Ode Remo by the children and grandchildren of the last Araba of Ode Remo ODUWOLE SOKUNBI,This family are 10th generation of babalawo in Oderemo. Araba Adesanya Awoyade is a first generation of babalawo and also his fore parents are not from Ode-Remo.
The controversy surrounding what Araba Adesanya said and his cohort in relaton to woman initiation is high political.I am vey disappointed that Araba Adessanya could be used in this conspiracy by the people from Russian,Ifatalabi and his group.If Marina , Ifayemisi fell out with them or did not get initaited by Araba,that should not be the reason why everybody should be lumped together.Another person who really suprise me is Sina Kuti, who is not into the tradition not to even call or say babalawo, he is a christian and attended methodist Church in Ode Remo.He is just an interpreter for Araba Adesanya Awoyade because of his bit undestanding of english.the last but not the least Sina Adekoya, yes , he practise the religion but not a babalawo or an oba as he claimed. At the time of time when the interview was conducted Ode Remo Oba was late FUNSO Adeolu, their are 3 other communities which are close to Ode Remo and who have their own oba ,these communities are Eposo, Iraye and Oogunmogbo their is no town by the name Ameri, so he is a fraud, using that title to deceive people of the diaspora.check this blog below to to have a better understanding of what ifa say about women initaition.If Araba and his co hort are not verse in Ifa they should not mis led people. Ifa is not bias Human are. Olodumare can never be bias so also the orisas it is we human that are.check this blog-.oderemoiyanifacorner.blogspot.com

Awo Fafemi Fatalabi said...

Aboru Aboye Abosise ooo!

Iya Fabirlik has forgotten to tell names of all elders Ode Remo which against eelegan for women. What political?

I was in Nigeria already 5 times and I know, that people will not refuse money.

My question why Araba Ode Remo does not wish to take money from white women and to make of them great American Iyaonifa?
You know that infringement eewo brings ibi? If in line Ode Remo eewo make Iyaonifa, why children and grandchildren of the last Araba of Ode Remo Oduwale Sokunmbi make for you Iyaonifa initiation???
Or they do not agree with the Elders of Ode Remo?
When children Sokunmbi will be Araba Ode Remo then at them will be votes for now they should respect the seniors.
I understand that now in the world to spit we wanted on elders and their recommendation therefore and we have so much in diaspora good "priests" and "priestesses".

Awo Egbe Ifa Ile Ogunti Ode Remo (Okanran Sode)
Oluwo Egbe Awo Toshin (Ukraine)
www.yorubaorganization.com

Awo Fafemi Fatalabi said...

Aboru Aboye Abosise ooo!

Iya Fabirlik has forgotten to tell names of all elders Ode Remo which against eelegan for women. What political?

I was in Nigeria already 5 times and I know, that people will not refuse money.

My question why Araba Ode Remo does not wish to take money from white women and to make of them great American Iyaonifa?
You know that infringement eewo brings ibi? If in line Ode Remo eewo make Iyaonifa, why children and grandchildren of the last Araba of Ode Remo Oduwale Sokunmbi make for you Iyaonifa initiation???
Or they do not agree with the Elders of Ode Remo?
When children Sokunmbi will be Araba Ode Remo then at them will be votes for now they should respect the seniors.
I understand that now in the world to spit we wanted on elders and their recommendation therefore and we have so much in diaspora good "priests" and "priestesses".

Awo Egbe Ifa Ile Ogunti Ode Remo (Okanran Sode)
Oluwo Egbe Awo Toshin (Ukraine)
www.yorubaorganization.com

Iyanifa Telarok said...

IFATALABI,
I will pardon your ignorance, Male chauvinistic idea and lack of your knowledge in Ifa but I will want to enlighten you so that you will not be miss led and also so that your ego will not take the better part of you. I have not done anything that is EEWO, AND WILL NOT SEE IBI, I HAVE AND AM FOLLOWING THE DICTATE OF IFA WHICH ALLOW WOMEN TO BE INITATED INTO IFA. Am not saying I saw ODU but my Ifa was placed side by side with Odu , that is in the presence of ODU. By placing my Ifa or anybody Ifa with Odu IS TO ENERGISE THE IFA and also to allow the person rightful odu to manifest.
I will want to let you know that the teaching of Ifa on the issue of women and men is not about Subordination, Subjugation or Superiority, If emphases balance between both sexes.
The meaning and significant of Ifa initiation by Men has been interpreted to be An issue of superiority over women in the Diaspora but this is not so according to TRUE IFA CONCEPT AND MEANING.
People in the Diaspora has seen life as a competition and individual achievement over Cooperative achievement as practice by our forefathers and mother of the African decent and culture.
Araba Adesanya, will not take money from a woman or initiated a woman into IfA because he does not know how to do it. AND ALSO HE KNOWS THE CONSEQUENCE OF DOING WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO IN IFA .
Why don't you ask Falola how did he learn how to do initaition of women into Ifa and why did he initiate women into ifa in Venezuela if it was a taboo or eewo Also why did he also wrote the lady that conducted the interview that she should invite him to Russia so that he can initiate her INTO IFA. I HAVE THE CORRESPONDENCE EXCHANGED BETWEEN HER AND FALOLA
This just to tell you that the issue of women initiation in Oderemo is Politic. Also Arba does not know how and does not want to learn. This is not issue of seniority or one should obey the seniors. Ifa advise that the young Awo and the senior awo must at all time listen and learn from one another to create a better world , this is from iwori meji. If life is all about obedience to seniority, we will not have people debunking theories and creating new theories by Younger people , and member of the which are well relevant to today society.
Ask Falolo to recite the chant that was use for you during the special bath for you when you were been painted with , efun, osun,Edu, and iyirin{efun, osun, charcaol and mud} also asked him what is the meaning of OKE AIKU.
But for your knowledge I will chant the verse for you from Okanran Meji. THIS VERSE ALL BABALAWO and IYANIFA USED IT WHEN MAKING THE PRINTING ON THE BODY OF THE INITIATE BEFORE, THE INITATE HAS THEIR BATH.
tHE VERSE IS
Oye ni ko san ara kuru kuru , ko ta mona mona, Ako Aparo Abo Apao won ko lo gbe loi tan tan tan, dafu , Olofin O je belu , Eyin to se asan, iyawo rw ru te, oMo won okanbi iyen fi oniku fi ola dide, won ni kin won gbe won losi oke aiku, ki oni dudud ko gba dudud, koni funfun ogba funfun ki Alayin gba yin ri ki bara opetu ko ofo lo
MEANING
Oye Ni Ko San Ara , Kurukuru Ko Tan Monamona , Ako Aparo Abo Apara Ko No Ogbe Lori Tan Tan Tan, Were The Babalawos That Divine For Olofin Who Was Not In Good State Of Health And Also Financially , His Wife Was Also In Serious Health Issues , Their Son Okanbi Was Having Relapsing Fever, They Were Told To Go To Oke Aiku To Get Initiated And Have The Same Bath That Was Done For You During Initiation So That , All The Negativity In Fom Of White, Black, Red, And Mud Like Will Leave Their Body And Go Away.They Did And Their Health ,Finances And All That Were Their Were In Good Condition

Iyanifa Telarok said...

IFATALABI
CONTINUATION
WOMEN CAN BE INITTED INTO IFA

OGBE ALARA REFER TO IGBO ODU AS IGBO AIKU, SO DOES IT MEN THAT IGBO AIKU, THE FOREST OF LONGEVITY SHOULD SOLELY FOR MEN!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!
.Araba and his co hot always try to restrict the women to hand of ifa , which we call Ide siso, but what they do not realise is that Okanransode prescribe Ide sisio for both Male and Female. THE GBEKUDE THAT WAS STRING WITH THE ILEKE WAS A SEED FROM A TREE THAT SPROUT WHEN ORUNMILA AND IKU FOUGHT AND ORUNMILA DEFEATED IKU AND HANG HIM WITH A ROPE , IT WAS THIS ROPE THAT ORUNMILA USED TO TIED IKU, THAT TURN INTO A TREE, AND ORUNMILA MADE A CONVERNANT WITH IKU THAT WHEN EVER HE SEE THE SEED FROM THE TREE ON THE HAND OF HIS CHILDREN HE SHOULD NOT HARM THEM.
W E APPRECIATE THEY ARABA MAKING SURE AND EMPHASIZING WE WOMEN GET HAND OF IFA , BUT SINCE OKANSODE IS THE ODU OF ODEREMO, ALL THE CHILDREN ,BOTH MALE AND FEMALE OF ODE REMO ARE SUPPOSE TO WEAR IDE , AS PRESCRIBE BY THE ODU NOT WOMEN ALONE.
You wrote that you have been to oderemo 5 time , are you sure I or you want to say 3 times . If you have come to ode remo 5 time, how many months do you spend or weeks?
To learn Ifa and know all the Nettie gritty of Ifa you will spend noting less between 10- 25 years learning depending on your Oluwo and teachers and you will have gone under the tutelage between 3-5 babalawos /iyanifa.
Fatalabi, you are still a baby on the issue of ifa. Stay clear of the politic, be humble, and do not let your ego get the best of you, Respect women, Awo who does not respect women and give women their due homage live to regret it.
I will also use the medium to advise women that they can learn to be an Iyanifa, Orunmila taught women how to cast, make and preside over offering/sacrifice ceremony and also initiated people into Ifa.Ogundofu confirm this, Otura, Idi attest to this,
If women learn ifa , lot of things that some babalawo are tying to use to get women confuse or giving them wrong information about, will be in the open and known to them.
AS IFA SAY LET US MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE SO THAT THE WORLD WILL BE A BETTER PLACE STOP DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN

Marcos said...

Alaafia Iyanifa,

Pleae NOTE, I have NEVER initiated ANYONE into Ifa, I have NEVER worked with anyone in Venezuela to initiate anyone. Also, I have NEVER written to anyone in Russia, and I have NEVER asked to initiate any woman.

Ifalola is a common name, like michael or john, so perhaps you are speaking of a different Ifalola. My name is Marcos Ifalola Sanchez, and I have done none of the things you described above.

My Oluwo in Ibadan is married to a woman who holds the title Iyanifa, but she does not divine, and it's considered an honorific title.

Thank you for clarifying your position.

Ifalola (marcos)

Awo Fafemi Fatalabi said...

I studied Ifa not only in Ode Remo, respected Apetebi:-)

Marcos said...

Alaafia,

My site is not for use as a battle ground. I've allowed you to say your points, once, but it's beginning to get personal and that's not acceptable. If you want to cite theological arguments, then I will consider publishing your comments, otherwise they will be rejected at my discretion.

Thank you,
Ifalola Sanchez

Awo Fafemi Fatalabi said...

alaafia.
Women do not see Odu.
Ese from Odu Irete Ogbe say:

74. Nwon si dijo mba bo.
75. Nigbati o ya, Odu ni, iwo Orunmila,
76. o ni, yara mo ewo on o.
77. O ni, on fe ka ewo on fun o.
78. O ni on, o fe ki awon obirin yioku,
79. ki nwon o ma wo on 1'oju.
80. O ni, k'o ba on so fun gbogbo awon obirin yioku,
81. ki nwon o ma wo on 1'oju.
82. O ni, eyn ti o ba ti wo on l’oju, yio ri'ja on.
83. O ni, on ko fe ki enikankan o wo on 1'oju o.
84. Orunmila ni, ko buru.
85. O si pe gbogbo awon obirin re.
86. O kilo fun won.
87. Awon obirin Orunmila, nwon ko wo o 1'oju.
88. Odu nso fun Orunmila pe,
89. o ni, on wa ba o di eru re si rere ni.
90. O ni, on wa ba o tun gbogbo nkan re se ni
91. O ni, gbogbo nkan re ti o ba si fe baje, ki on o
maa tun un se.
92. O ni ti o ba mo ewo on,
93. o ni, gbogbo nkan re poo pata ni yio maa dara.
94. Eyii ti o ba si fe baje
95. on ko ni je ki nkankan o baje
96. Bi oso fe ba a je
97.o ni, on ko ni je,
98. ti on gan naa ko ba si ti ba a je
99. O ni, aje kookan ko le ba nkan Orunmila je.
100. O ni, ti Orunmila ko ba ti fi on sere.
101. O ni, ti Orunmila ko si je ki awon obirin re yioku ko fi on sere.
102. O ni, on ko ni ba Orunmila ja.
103. On ko si ni ba awon enia re ja.
104. O ni, ki Orunmila si maa mo gbogbo ise ti o ba fe maa ran on.
105. O ni, ti o ba ran on nise, ti enikan ba fi iya je e nibi kan,
106. ti o ba fe ran on si i, on o je e.
107. Agbara eiye re,
108. Ki enikan ba ti fi iya je Orunmila,
109. Bi o yin in, lekanna, Odu nlo ja nibe nu un.
110. L'Orunniila wa ni, hen! Iwo Odu yii.
111. On mo O ni pataki.
112. On si mo pe iwo l'o ju gbogbo awon obirin lo l’aiye.

Marcos said...

Alaafia,

If you are going to post Yoruba verse, please post the translation into english, otherwise it won't make it up.

Thanks again,
Ifalola

Awo Fafemi Fatalabi said...

Aboru boye!

Irete'gbe says:

75. Nigbati o ya, Odu ni, iwo Orunmila,
76. o ni, yara mo ewo on o.
77. O ni, on fe ka ewo on fun o.
78. O ni on, o fe ki awon obirin yioku,
79. ki nwon o ma wo on l'oju.
80. O ni, k'o ba on so fun gbogbo awon obirin yioku,
81. ki nwon o ma wo on l'oju.
82. O ni, eyn ti o ba ti wo on l’oju, yio ri'ja on.
83. O ni, on ko fe ki enikankan o wo on l'oju o.
84. Orunmila ni, ko buru.
85. O si pe gbogbo awon obirin re.
86. O kilo fun won.
87. Awon obirin Orunmila, nwon ko wo o l'oju.
88. Odu nso fun Orunmila pe,
89. o ni, on wa ba o di eru re si rere ni.

Translate:
75. when the time had come, odu says, you Orunmila
76. she says, she wished to tell him quicly of your prohibitions (to Odu)
77. She says that she wishes to tell him her edicts.
78. She says, that she does not want his other wives
79. to look her in the face.
80. She says for him to tell his other wives.
81. she says, not to look her in face.
82. Who ever looks her in the face will know a battle.
83. She says, that she does not want anyone to look her in the face.
84. Orunmila says, not bad.
85. Then he calls all his wives.
86. he warns them
87. Orunmila wives will not look her in the face.
88. Odu tells Orunmila that.
89. She says she comes with him to make his burdens less.

Odu Ose Oyeku says:


152. Lo' to fi di pe , bi Babalawo t'o ba bo' fa
153. ti o ba si lo si igbo Ifa
154. ti ko ba tii bo Odu ninu apere
155. kotii se nkankan
156. ifa ko ni tii mo pe o bo on
157. on ko tii mo wi pe o di omo on
158. o ni gbogbo omo on ti o ba ti de igbodu naa
159. ko si tun maa pada bo Odu obirin on ninu apere

Translate:
152. if the babalawo wish to adore Ifa
153. if he has not (previously) propiated Odu in the apere
154. then he will accomplish noting
155. Ifa will not know that he has come to worship him
156. he does not know he has become his child
157. he says that all his children who shall enter the forest of Ifa
158. they must first worship odu his wife in the apere.

>>>>.Araba and his co hot always try to restrict the women to hand of ifa>>>>

If the woman receives a hand ifa from good Awo, the woman receives is more IRE than, the woman which has received elegan initiation from babalario.

1). Araba seniors all Awo's.
2). He knowledge Ifa is infinite.
3). Araba will not break tradition of the ancestors because of money.
4). ide with gbekude carry not only women, you are right.

>>>>Fatalabi, you are still a baby on the issue of ifa>>>>>.

My experience in Ifa many years. I head big community in Ukraine and Russia.
at you???
As far as I understand, you recive ifa initiation (elegan) one year ago.

Aloko Adewale Peter said...

Please and Please where can i get some Ifa books in Nigeria?

Marcos said...

Alaafia Aloko,

I can't speak to exactly where you can get books in Nigeria, but I do know that the university of Ibadan has several published works on Orisa, so I would imagine that would be the best place to start. In addition, there is Ayo Salami's work on Ifa, he lives in Nigeria and his website is: http://ayosalami.com/ so you should be able to contact him directly. Other than that, you can purchase books from amazon.com I would imagine.

best of luck,
Ifalola